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Talk:Ghosts of Halo
Okay, so let's get down to business... With the recent controversy in the article, the time has come to rethink the concepts of the Ghosts of Halo, and come to an agreement on what the article should include. I would like to start with the definition of these Ghosts. How's it going in the world of Cyber-ghost hunting? Spydr again, don't know why but I started a new section for this topic, hope no one minds... But anyway, what discoveries have been made during my hiatus? Any ghosts that have been proven true? This seems extremely unlikely, considering the only viable True Ghost sighting so far seems to be the Ghost of Lockout. But, you never know. Usually we get quite a few False Ghost sightings, so what's going on there? And once again, if anybody was affiliated with Bacon11 and his ghost hunting group, if you could fill me in on your findings that would be great. :Found a YouTube video of a valid ghost on Halo 3's Blackout, as well as a File Share video (which was also uploaded to YouTube) showing a Pink Ghost of Sandtrap -- an inactive pink Spartan armed with a BR, who promptly disappeared after a few seconds. Both have been added to the article and both have the appropriate REF tags. :Furthermore, I've taken the liberty of reclassifying the Ghosts a bit... Now, we have "Ghosts" and "Not Ghosts". The only distinction between a "Fake Ghost" and a "False Ghost" was the way they were not Ghosts (deliberate falsification versus unrelated oddities), a distinction that wasn't particularly important in an article that discusses actual Ghosts rather than non-Ghosts. :And finally, I unbolded your text just now. Hope you don't mind -- the bold really lowered its readability. @_@ DavidJCobb 19:22, September 14, 2009 (UTC) Actually, Fake Ghosts were just Ghosts that were proven to be fake, hoaxes, not real, etc. So they really aren't Ghosts at all, where False Ghosts are actually a sort of... sub-species of ghosts, if you will. They aren't the original, mysterious gliding spartan that started all this hype, they are other forms of glitches that, in a way, attempt to kill a player. For example, a few months ago a False ghost of Sandtrap was discovered after over loading the map. Mongooses began spawning in mid-air, but mysteriously didn't fall until a player stepped under them. This glitch is classified as a ghost because it is a ghost that attempts to kill the player, but it isn't a True Ghost because it doesn't appear in the original veneration of a ghost (mysterious sliding spartan/possibly elite), so it is a False Ghost. There is a big difference, one is actually a ghost and one isn't. The classification of Ghosts will stay the same. True Ghosts, False Ghosts, the very rare and neglected Half Ghost, and Fake Ghost (hoax). They should all be included in the same article, considering that the Ghosts of Halo is a very trivial point of the game, and we don't need any more articles pertaining Ghosts, so this would be the best place to keep that information. Oh, and about the two ghosts... I haven't been following all the ghost stuff lately, so I may have missed something, but how can it be proven for sure that the Ghost of Blackout isn't a hoax? The Ghost of Lockout has enough evidence to prove that it is real, provided by AfRoSaUcE, and so far all the evidence he has given is reliable and makes sense. But we don't have much evidence on the Ghost of Blackout, could it have been a mod, or some sort of hack? And that Pink Spartan would be classified as a Half Ghost, considering that it does resemble a Spartan model, but it doesn't seem to have any other qualities of a True ghost, like hostile behavior, erratic movement, and things like that. It definitely isn't a False Ghost considering, once again, that it isn't hostile and it is a spartan model. And sorry about the bold, but if you look in the archived pages (page 1) you'll see that I've been using the bold for quite some time now, and no one has complained about it being unreadable. So I will continue to use bold, sorry. :::I'm gonna have to revert those edits. And un-bold your text again. Here's why. :::About your edits to the intro... It's an intro. It's supposed to be brief, because it is an introduction to a topic that will be discussed in more detail after the intro. The details go below it, in the sections. Too many articles on Halopedia have gigantic intros because people don't seem to understand the concept. :::As for your classification... Well, first, Fake Ghosts don't need to be listed. The criteria for identifying something as a non-Ghost should be listed, but specific examples should not. :::Similarly, "False Ghosts" don't need to be listed because they're not Ghosts. They have no relevance to Ghosts. They're just random glitches whose only similarity to Ghosts is that both are bizarre and can cause a player's death. If all bizarre and potentially lethal glitches were False Ghosts, then we'd gonna have to merge nearly every glitch article on the wiki into the False Ghosts section. Thankfully, though, neither weirdness nor lethality automatically make a glitch have any kind of relevance to Ghosts of Halo, and so we can both avoid a mass merge and decide to not discuss False Ghosts at all. :::Furthermore, pretty much all of the False Ghosts can be faked -- most with ridiculous ease. :::*Hovering Homicidal Mongoose: Simple. Have a player in Forge hold a 'Goose in the air, and drop it when someone else walks underneath. Tada! Hoax. :::*Random Wraith Shots: Have someone fire a Wraith, and have someone else quickly delete it. The pilot will reappear at a spawn point, and if the camera's slow enough, no one'll see the Wraith except the two "conspirators". :::*Shots from no identifiable source? I'd use the Arm Glitch. That glitch allows a player in Edit Mode to manipulate another player's held weapon... So the holder could shoot while the editor keeps the weapon away from them; then, the editor can delete the weapon before anyone else (be they other players or YouTube viewers) sees. :::And as for your statements on True Ghosts: :::*They should be called "Ghosts". They're Ghosts, call them Ghosts. :::*You didn't cite any references, not even the videos that show Ghosts. Fail. :::*Not all Ghosts are hostile, and not all of them lack a reason. The Lockout and Blackout Ghosts had a reason -- it was free-for-all Slayer, that means kill everybody in sight. Some Ghosts have been seen in team games, behaving as though they were on a team (and indeed having their armor colored to match their behavior). :::*They can be killed, at least in Halo 3. Blackout Ghost was vulnerable. :::And Half Ghosts... :::*Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me?! :::*A Half Ghost is an inactive Ghost. It had all the characteristics of a Ghost (no gamertag, not on scoreboard) save for its inactivity -- and that difference is far too negligible to warrant an entire sub-classification, especially if such a sub-classification would only contain one instance of a Ghost! :::Your video description: :::*No need to mention the lack of a scoreboard entry, the lack of animations, etc.. Those were mentioned on my list of Ghost abilities, until you deleted that list. (You could've -- no, should've -- at least kept the REFs. This is a wiki, not a personal website, you need to cite sources whenever possible.) :::*The Ghost may have been auto-sticking. If the theory of it being a partially-lagged-out player is correct, then the player could've just been really good with Plasma 'Nades. If the theory of it being a semi-deleted AI is correct, then it was auto-sticking and it was auto-''everything''. But since we don't know what it was, we can't know whether its grenade sticks were "natural". :::*I will, however, change "barrel" (as in, what Anti Noob was hiding behind) to "Fusion Core", as you did -- I haven't played Halo 2, so I didn't recognize the object for what it was. :::Some other problems: :::*"The following sightings are the most popular and the most reliable sightings of ghosts seen in the games as to date." Prove it or add a . Or better yet, remove it, because it potentially violates NPOV. :::*Your little warnings ("This video is also widley regarded as a hoax, but whether it is or not has yet to be proven.") are unnecessary due to the presence of the fact template ("citation needed"). :::And finally, one of the biggest problems. :::The Ghost of Blackout is easily proven -- watch the video. It didn't have a gamertag, it didn't change direction (except to shoot), and it didn't have animations for walking or running. None of those attributes can be faked, even when using Forge. Also irreproducible: its ability to throw grenades backwards through its own body. Blackout's real. The Pink Ghost of Sandtrap is also real, as it didn't show up on the scoreboard (again, that can't be faked in-game). The only way those two could be fake is if a modchip was used, and if they were modchipped, then how do we know that the Lockout Ghost wasn't? And in any case, both Blackout and Pink Sandtrap had nearly all of the characteristics that Halo 2 Ghosts have. If you don't believe me, check the refs on the list of abilities. :::I'll finish this by saying that this is a public article, editable by anyone. So it's not "your" article. Do feel free to make edits to it, but be aware that there are certain guidelines when editing a wiki. :::*Cite sources as much as possible. Halopedia is a bit loose with this rule, editors are given some leeway with it, but citing sources does prove what you're saying, so that it doesn't come under debate on the talk page (or get removed) later. It also makes the article seem more reliable and professional. Hell, even dubious sources can make articles seem more reliable to the casual user, who's impressed by the mere presence of "1". :::*When making huge edits, propose them on the talk page and wait for approval, especially if it's a large or notable subject like this. Obviously, you don't have to do this for minor articles like your garden-variety glitch, but I should hope that you, too, consider this article notable. So propose huge edits. If they're approved, make them. If they're not approved, work with other editors to improve your ideas, and then if they're approved after that, make them. This way, people don't have to spend time reverting edits (and they don't have to spend time politely typing up their reasons -- something most editors wouldn't care to do anyway). :::So yeah. I'll happily work with you on trying to make this article the best it can be, but do understand that for that to happen -- for you, me, and other editors to be able to collaborate in a constructive and efficient manner -- some guidelines must be followed. (If I wasn't willing to work with you on this, I wouldn't have even bothered to explain the reversion.) And I do apologize if this comment has an antagonistic tone to it. And I know China called -- they'll have their wall back in a bit, I promise. DavidJCobb 20:09, September 15, 2009 (UTC) ::::I mean, it's clear that you care about this article and about the phenomenon that it describes, so I want to work with you to make this article the best it can be, because I'm sure that you have a similar goal. DavidJCobb 20:25, September 15, 2009 (UTC) Spydr returns, only to depart into the shadows once more... Hey guys! It has been a LONG time since I've been here, I'm hoping there are still a few familiar faces around here. For those of you that don't know me, I was very active with the Ghost business for a short perios of time, not sure how long ago. I created the whole True, False, and Fake ghost concept, which I am glad to see has become a widely used theory. If you want to know a bit more about how I've contributed here, check out the Archives of this article, page 1. All my comments are in bold, so they should be easy to find. I have returned only to check up on this place and make sure I have not missed too much, also to make sure this article hasn't been reverted back to the chaos it once was. I might be leaving again for a short time, but I will return in the future, I promise. My Xbox has experienced the fatal Red Rings of Death, and I'm getting it repaired. So I'll hopefully see some of you guys in the future! Now, to make this more GHOST related, does anyone know if Bacon11 (Cayman192) hangs around this place anymore? I recall that he told me his ghost hunting group found something interesting, but he never specified what. I am eager to discover just what that is, Bacon11 is a great ghost hunter and I would love to hear his stories and share his thoughts. Anyway, happy ghost hunting! ghost encounter!!! hi i'm diego1119 on xbox360 live I was just messing around on sandtrap and I was the only one in the game at the time and all of a sudden I hear a grandae explode and I was in forge mode so I couldn't have thrown one! So i rush over to the place it exploded and there is an orange sparten sliding down there and he is super fast and i had speed set to normal! so I check if eneybody joined me and it said I was the only one! he wasn't on my radar and he didn't turn normal he more like turned super sharp. i spawned myself a rocket lancher and shot him and he didn't die so I quickly ended the game. I went to theater for investigation and as soon as I got to when i first saw him the xbox360 went strait off halo3 and onto the dashboard! so i try to watch it again and it lets me! So i watched him and turns out it could transport places.so i saved the film and got off for a wile. and later that day I got my friends on xbox live and tried to show it to them and film wasn't in my saved files! I don't know why it just showed up like that. if you have xbox live and would like to join my ghost hunter team and try to find this halo3 ghost just send me a message saing ghost. :Wait, let me rewrite your post so I can read it better. (I don't mean to be rude, but it's... not very legible.) : :Whew. Okay, now that that's done, I can wrap my head around what you were saying. :What weapons did the Ghost of Halo have? What Armor Permutations did it use? :Also, the Ghost of Halo seen in Blackout was also orange, I think; did the Ghost you saw resemble the Ghost of Blackout (for example, in behavior or armor)? There's a link in the article's references section where you can watch the video. : DavidJCobb 21:27, 30 July 2009 (UTC) ::diego1119 ::The ghost appeared to only have a sparten lazer :::diego1119 :::it had no elbrem but it had regular mark5 armor :::and it behaved as the blackout ghost did. :::my thiory is that it is something that bungie did not put in but a glitch that was glitched when they made halo 3 but it's strainge because ghosts have also appeared on halo and halo 2 so I really don't know .it behave's like it's in a team by itself even in a team slayer with red vs. blue. It will kill you the momont it see's you. I thing it is one ghost because all ghost's have no camra you can attatch, no gamertag, nothing. it doesn't even show up on radar. so if you have an xbox I am diego1119 and we can look for it. I am in the prosses of figuring it out. when the ghost showed up it played a wierd sound and it sounded like "play this backwards" so I did and it sounded like he was talking to god! there is somebody who has the same thing on youtube its called " halo 3 scary as hell" ::::All right, first of all, you do '''NOT' need to create multiple sections to reply!!'' All you have to do is indent your comments by putting a ":" at the beginning of each line. You take the post you're replying to, find out how many ":"s they used, and use one more for your post -- in conversations with multiple people, this allows us to know who's replying to what. ::::Second of all, you should put ~~~~ (four tildes) after each of your posts. When you save your edit, the code will be replaced with a timestamp, which allows people to know when you posted. ::::Now that that's all out of the way, I'm gonna "translate" the comment -- again, it helps me read it. :::: ::::All right. Now that I've read through your comment, I shall address it. ::::About the ghost being in both H2 and H3,... ::::When game developers create sequels to games, they often modify the earlier game to make the later one. Sometimes, they code a sequel from scratch, but they design it very similarly to the way they designed the previous game. Some examples: ::::*''Pokemon Yellow'' was a somewhat-modified Pokemon Red. Similarly, Pokemon FireRed was a modified Pokemon Ruby. ::::*''Red Faction II'' was a modified Red Faction. ::::*''Super Smash Bros. Brawl'' was designed similarly to Super Smash Bros. Melee (I assume). ::::*''Halo 2'' was designed similarly to Halo: Combat Evolved. (The evidence? Both use tags.) ::::*''Halo 3'' was designed similarly to Halo 2. (The evidence? Halo 3 uses tags as well, it's how different maps have different Forge Objects.) ::::So even if Halo 3's code wasn't directly based off of Halo 2, if even part of it was designed similarly, then some of the same glitches may be present -- such as Ghosts of Halo. ::::As for the Splaser... The article mentions a ghost on Sandtrap that had a Splaser, but doesn't say much more than that... I wouldn't know where to research it, but if you manage to find video evidence (preferrably a video that we can watch OTI, though I guess a Film on Bungie.net would work too), then you could add more information, citing the video(s) as a reference. ::::As for all Ghosts being the same... They're not. Different Ghosts have different appearances and behave differently. The First Ghost of Sandtrap is rumored to be a Splaser-wielding, insta-killing omen of death; the Second Ghost of Sandtrap, mentioned in the article, was a pink Spartan with a Battle Rifle that did little more than stand idly before promptly disappearing; and the Ghost of Blackout is an orange-armored, backwards-grenade-sticking, perfectly-aiming Spartan capable of respawning but apparently incapable of teleporting. ::::As for the weird sound... A Ghost's vocal capabilities depends on what a Ghost actually is. ::::*If a Ghost is a semi-lagged player, then theoretically, a Ghost may be able to send team chat. I doubt anyone would send backwards messages over team chat, however. ::::*If a Ghost is not a glitched player, then it should only be able to cause sounds that are programmed into the game, making it impossible to send backwards messages (save for the ones that play in Terminals and some background music, none of which sould like prayers). :::: DavidJCobb 04:38, 31 July 2009 (UTC) :::::diego1119 :::::but the orarange ghost wasn't spawned until the pink spartan was gone. And when I watched the video I saw that it did have a defalt weapon and changed to a splazer. And it shot at me and with further investigation ( before the ghost deleeted it from my files) I noticed that the ghost shot at me with the splazer and where it hit was where I heard the crach and thought it was a granade but it was the splazer. And unlike halo 1, and Halo 2 Halo3 has matchmaking and the ghost also appears in it. Do you think there is a new ghost? :::::And you cannot mod in halo3 matchmaking. I've also seen the ghost only once in matchmaking. but I've seen it muliple times in custom and forge. :::::So there for it cannot be because of modding ::::::Reread my post, and start editing this page properly. Stop creating new sections for replies. The "Post a comment" link starts a new conversation; to reply to a conversation that has already begun, just edit its section as you would edit any page on a wiki. And please use a spell checker and sign your edits on talk pages. ::::::Also, you should perhaps explain your Ghost encounter in more detail -- prior to my mention of it, you never mentioned a pink Ghost. ::::::And in the next section, which I assume is what you were referring to... I did not say that modding created the Ghosts. I said that modding proved that the Ghosts were not AIs. ::::::Now, before you reply, please read the following pages/sections. ::::::* ::::::*Halopedia:Manual of Style#Do sign your Talk posts ::::::*Halopedia:Manual of Style#Don't use conversational style (Ignore the third bullet point) ::::::K? DavidJCobb 19:48, 31 July 2009 (UTC) hlmt''Italic text'' :::::::diego1119 :::::::Oh. I am very sorry, but I just learned about this site and I don't quite understand it much. Sory:). :::::::And I'm sorry I got too far ahead when I was talking about the pink ghost. :::::::I looked at the film again and fould that a pink spartan spawned behind me and I didn't know it until I watched it again.( for some reason it appears itn my files but it goes away for a long time) :::::::Sometimes my computer say's its typing but it doesn't show up in a final thing, so i'm lucky if you see this! :::::::But here is a more vivid telling. :::::::I was on Halo 3 and I was off of my live at the time.I decided to do some forging. My game wasn't lagging I had all my bars. :::::::And so I start the game and a pink spartan shot a splazer and it missed me and where it hit I thought a granade exploded and so I go over to where I heard it crash ( About in the middle of the tower with the elephant behind it on the side with the sun setting or rising) and I saw a orange spartan sliding facing only at me. he was only siding back and forth left and right.It was in all orange it had no elreb. But it wasn't like normal armor. It was more like, ummmmmm. It looked a lot like detaled clay. There is a somewhat simaler video only wih a gun called Ghost of sandtrap by Kyan13 on youtube. :::::::he only held a splazer and it was throwing granades randomly so I assumed it was thinking it wanted to kill something but it wasn't throwing granades at me. So I ended the game quickly. There is a simaler video about what happened to me on youtube.com called HALO 3 GHOST OF SANDTRAP!!!!!!!!!! :::::::Oh and I don't have an account so I don,t thing I can leave a thing. That's why I just say Diego1119. :::::::I won't be on for a while so I might be on next week but we can meet on live. :) P.S. I am only 1a kid so thank you for your time and fixing my section and helping me out! -- 23:42, 31 July 2009 (UTC) ::::::::Sorry, I shouldn't have snapped at you. ::::::::So you saw two Ghosts in one session? And the pink Spartan was actually moving? Hmm... This implies that a Ghost's behavior may vary. DavidJCobb 19:18, 2 August 2009 (UTC) ::::"Diego1119 ::Yes. There were 2 ghosts in the same game but only the pink spartan fired but I think that the orange spartan didn't fire because it didn't see me. What do you think it is?" 23:51, 4 August 2009 (UTC) AI in maps? O RLY? A somewhat popular theory about Ghosts of Halo is that they are the result of AI codes hidden in maps. However, that theory is most likely false. You see, player models (Spartans and Elites) can be placed in maps by modding. I think this is possible because the insertion of players into a map may work similarly to how (I assume) it did in Halo: Combat Evolved: the appropriate objects are placed and modified, and the player is then given control over them. The models have shields and health, and they can be killed, but they are totally inactive. Now, if there were AI codes in maps, wouldn't the Spartan and Elite "statues" use the AI? Some links to back this up: *[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eu6KnexSmE YouTube: halo 3 modded maps part 1 (NEW!)] *:The modded Sandtrap variant, "Halo Wars", features a placed Elite and numerous placed Spartans. None of them move. DavidJCobb 16:55, 31 July 2009 (UTC) :I wouldnt call them statues and 1 time i was playing with a friend and this time when we played (we had done it b4 and it was normal) at the start they all jumped over and over in one place so i started a new round and they all just ran forward and we said this is gonna be awesome but they just ran past each other and out in 2 the mines which didnt go off and they hit the wall and ran into it and didnt stop no i didnt save the vid i didnt think it was important --Ubuntu Dragon 22:55, 12 August 2009 (UTC) ::Even if that's true, that only demonstrates incredibly simplistic and likely random commands... The clones in that incident didn't show nearly the same level of intelligence as the average Ghost. DavidJCobb 23:23, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :::i know i just thought they shouldnt be called statues i wasnt saying they were ghosts they were nothing near --Ubuntu Dragon 02:07, 17 August 2009 (UTC) ::::I wasn't saying you were saying they were Ghosts. I was just saying that I wasn't being literal when I called them "statues"; it was a comparison by metaphor, relating the clones' inactivity to that of a statue. DavidJCobb 16:11, 17 August 2009 (UTC) Ghost of Collossus This happened to me a lonnnng time ago, I was at my brother's friends' house. We were playing the "newly released" Halo 2. It was an offline slayer match for 2 players, and we chose to play on Colossus. After a while of fighting, we decided to let my opponent to quit and check out the map alone. As soon as he spawned. He heard footsteps. He saw me, but I wasn't playing and the screen clearly had one section. The ghost, like usual, had no animations and shot him. We had been talking in the kitchen until he told us to come, because "there was this wierd invincible guy who was sliding and shooting" him. Would this be a ghost or one o' those hoaxes? Agent Connecticut 22:25, 11 August 2009 (UTC) :There've been stories of Ghosts mimicking the appearances of others... Do you have proof (preferrably video)? DavidJCobb 02:25, 12 August 2009 (UTC) ::Oh great... this happened when I was about 7 maybe, I'm 12 now.... that's impossible. Agent Connecticut 16:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC) :::Aww... So it's possible, but not provable. DavidJCobb 17:52, 13 August 2009 (UTC) The ghost of Sndtrap Has anyone noticed before that the ghost of Sandtrap can shooting the Splaser, with the speed of a magnum? It didn't bother charging it up when chasing me around the map... or more correctly, wandering all over the place, and blasting me with its rapid fire Splaser. It ain't easy dodging a Splaser shooting at that speed :\ Anyway, it was proving indestructible, I tried sticking it with grenades, they just bounced off, I sniped it in the head, and once again, they just deflected off. So, I was stuck running, cause it always seemed to find where I was hiding. It didn't seem agressive unless I made sudden movements, and then woe unto me lol. It had the ability to drop forge objects on my head, which, was very annoying.... when a group of Fusion coils and Plasma batteries appears above your head... IT was also amazingly fast, but it never jumped. "Die? Didn't you know?...Spartans don't die." 21:53, September 15, 2009 (UTC) :Would you happen to have a Bungie.net Film, a Bungie.net Film Clip, or a YouTube video that we could use to verify this? (It would make a wonderful REF to use in the article! :D) Preferably a YouTube vid -- it would be easier to verify it. DavidJCobb 22:45, September 15, 2009 (UTC) Unfortunately not. IT sux, cause it would have made an interesting video, the ghost was making me do the Russian sailor dance :\ Pity I can't verify it with a vid, and only have my word for it =( I'll try to find a vid on Ytube that has a similar sighting. "Die? Didn't you know?...Spartans don't die." 23:08, September 15, 2009 (UTC) :I'd like to point out to you, Honor Guard Reborn, that we take things seriously here on Halopedia. -DinoBenn says "Fight to the End, Never Give In" 23:17, September 15, 2009 (UTC) What's that supposed to mean? eh?? "Die? Didn't you know?...Spartans don't die." 00:24, September 16, 2009 (UTC)